‘We’re thinking about what AI is going to destroy just as much as what it’s going to create’: Jonathan Knowles of Compound Equity Group

Former Capital Group manager talks about his new fund, why he doesn’t feel the need for wide ‘coverage’ and why he’s looking at $3 bn to $5 bn companies as his sweet spot

Compound Equity Group (CEG) was founded in 2024 and seeks high-conviction, long-term ideas in global equities. The founder and portfolio manager in charge, Jonathan Knowles, spent more than30 years managing money at Capital Group. At his time of retirement in December 2024, he was in charge of some $50 bn in assets and was the chief investment officer of the firm’s $70 bn small-cap fund – the largest such fund in the world.

CEG has recently raised  $500 mn in capital and is deploying a very long-term, highly concentrated approach: to have 20 to 25 investments with some positions around 10 percent of the fund, turning over only 10-15 percent.

Starting out in a different universe – with an undergraduate degree in Veterinary Science and a PhD in Immunovirology from Liverpool University, UK, where he was a Welcome Foundation Research Scholar before earning his MBA from INSEAD, in France – Knowles delivered exceptional results at Capital. During his tenure at the firm, he grew assets in the global fund by more than 11 times over 19 years, achieving returns substantially ahead of inflation and the relevant global index. As the principal investment officer of the Small Company World Fund (SCWF), a mutual fund investing in small companies globally, Knowles helped grow assets to $74 bn, with SCWF taking home the Lipper Award for best 10-year results in its category every year from 2013 to 2017, and again in 2020.

In 2024, Knowles founded CEG with a view to managing his family assets. His investment style has a strong emphasis on a business’ defensive moat, growth potential, certainty and incremental return on capital.

How did you move from veterinary science to fund management and has your science background served you well over the years as an investor?

At Capital, I had a reputation for hiring very numerate people, often with a science, engineering or a maths background.  At CEG, I’d like four out of five analysts with that kind of background. I’m very keen on people who are very, very numerate.  Also, I need people who can be objective and think for themselves.  I favor investors with profound comfort with uncertainty on the one hand, yet a degree of paranoia, on the other. You need to be able to tolerate uncertainty, yet you need to have a process and stick with it. There will inevitably be moments where the investment world will profoundly disagree with you and you need to either be reasonably confident you’re right or you will capitulate at exactly the wrong time. The paranoia permits you to constantly re-evaluate what you’re doing and try to work out whether you’ve got things right.

There’s a lot of numbers involved in what we do and it’s very helpful to be able to process those numbers. Numbers speak to you – they convey a message:Is this a good business? Is this a bad business? How much capital does this business need to grow?

 What drove you to set up your own firm? 

I was at Capital a long time (1992-2024) and really enjoyed it but, ideally, I’d like to carry on investing for another 20 years. My challenge now is to try to invest in my personal wealth, which I need to do this with great humility. I’m acutely conscious that I’m not in the privileged position I was at Capital, where I had an outstanding team of global analysts feeding me ideas. I’m also acutely conscious that many really good fund managers with great records have tried and failed at a second career. I’ve studied those reasons for failure and I will endeavor to assiduously avoid them. Important considerations are the people we hire, the culture and the process. 

CEG can invest globally, what’s the geographic split?

We’re trying to find a spread of good businesses around the world. And then, invest in them and be patient.

I’ve been a very big investor in emerging markets historically. But emerging markets are extremely difficult. One of the many challenges, is they tend to have depreciating currencies so you really need to find businesses that have a return on capital that’s quite a bit higher than the currency depreciates.

The US market must seem quite tame in comparison to emerging markets?

I like good governance at both a sovereign level – law and order, good judiciary and reasonable accounting – and at a company level. At the company level, we’re looking for competent and honest management. Management that is smart enough to deploy capital well and build and maintain a resilient moat. One of the challenges with the US market is share-based compensation, which can be egregious.

What about sector diversification?

We’re just trying to find businesses that go up over time, but I want a bit of a spread because I don’t want to put it all on black. We’re seeking companies that can deploy capital at reasonable rates of return and generate a bit of top line.

Discuss your investment style

We seek wide moats, dominant niches and companies that reinvest their cash flow at medium to high incremental rates of return – and ideally have a long runway for growth (recall the firm is called Compound!). We pay a lot of attention to certainty. What do we really know and how certain are we? We try to make relatively few solid decisions.

We try to avoid overstretched valuations and we favor liquidity. We aim for honest and meritocratic management who are ideally moderately competent. 

Do you have a minimum market cap?

The reality is that $2 bn feels like a good low end. We’re an open-ended fund, so it’s very important that people can sell the fund if they want to. We might go lower on occasion but not often.

Excluding yourself, CEG has three portfolio managers, one who focuses on industrials, one on healthcare and consumer and another on technology, what about coverage of other sectors?

I have a slight aversion to the word ‘coverage’ because all we need is 20-25 investments in stocks that are going to do well. We don’t need to ‘cover’ everything (which is how a typical Wall Street firm looks at things).

One of the things I like to do is go back and look at what have been the best stocks over the last 10 years. And what did we know about them 10 years earlier?

Very often those stocks were completely or partially off the radar. How many people were discussing Nvidia a decade ago?

Thirty years ago, companies like Google, Meta, Tesla didn’t exist. You need to be constantly looking around for the next companies that are going to devour companies that exist now. Obviously, the big theme at present is artificial intelligence (AI). We’re trying to think about what AI is going to destroy just as much as what it’s going to create. I suspect AI will dramatically alter the legal profession, accountancy, coding, call centers.

Which screens do you use?

We use a lot of screens, which helps generate ideas in the $3 bnto$5 bn range. I hope we can make that our sweet spot. It is much easier to double or quadruple a $3 bn company than a $500 bn company.

Do you consider ESG when investing?

One of the big fallacies about ESG is that it’s new. ESG has been around for 30 years. Let’s take ‘E’ – I’ve been avoiding businesses with environmental liabilities for an eternity.

On ‘S,’ my definition is a merit-based company. It doesn’t matter what you look like or what you do with your personal life, I do not dwell on it. I want to be invested in companies where talent and hard work ascends: a merit-based company.

As for governance, the G part of ESG, I’m very focused on it – it’s a must.

What’s your average holding period?

[We currently have a] 10-15 percent turnover. It will be a little higher initially as we get settled.

What’s your view on capital allocation: dividends vs buybacks for example?

The most important thing is that free cash flow is redeployed to grow the business wherever possible. After that, if there’s some cash flow left, [we favor] buybacks or dividends depending on the stock price.

Can you share some fund performance figures? 

It’s too early yet – I’m going to give myself five years to deliver returns that are substantially ahead of inflation.

In my 32 years of investing, I have made multiple mistakes or just been out of favor. The global fund I ran, compounded over 14.6 percent in dollar terms for 19 years but it was not a smooth vertical chart up. I will undoubtedly have years where I lag the returns of the market.

Can we focus on some of your larger holdings and why you invested? 

Copart is a good example of a company where you need to be patient. After its third quarter, the market got terribly upset because revenue growth was a bit below what it wanted. After its fourth quarter, the market loved the company again because revenue growth was a bit above what it wanted. And you couldn’t have anticipated either of those quarters.

That aside, I like the family ownership as families tend to make very long-term decisions, but it’s also listed, so it has the pressures of public ownership. There are multiple drivers.  The company deals with insurance companies on cars that have been written off. It collects the cars and processes them: you need big scrapyards to do this and nobody wants a scrap yard next to them – so that is a significant entry barrier. Copart processes more than 2 mn vehicles annually via online auctions operating from 200 locations in 11 countries. It’s a global business: if you want parts for a Toyota Rav 4 and you’re a Nigerian auto dealer, you can log on to Copart’s website and, via an online auction, buy yourself a scrapped RAV 4 car that’s been written off in the US. it’s global arbitrage really.  Revenues are driven by miles driven, which are rising; the accident rate, which is also rising as drivers are increasingly distracted; and salvage rates, which are rising as scrap values go up. Copart has compounded revenues at 14 percent in US dollars for the last decade. The balance sheet is excellent.  It’s a stock I like but I’d like it cheaper than it is!

How has corporate access changed since being at Capital? 

At Capital I had the luxury of seeing just about any company in the world. It was the greatest calling card you could have. At CEG, I’m insistent that we’re incredibly well prepared for every meeting. And we’re very focused: we only need 20-25 ideas.

Why should companies meet you? 

We’re very long term and we’re very patient. We won’t sell the first time there’s a hiccup in their share price. Indeed, we’ll probably buy if we if we understand the hiccup. We would like to have constructive relationships with 20-25 companies and we won’t waste their time as we’ll be very well prepared.

And we try to be excellent custodians of our clients’ money.

I’d add that I have some grey hair! I’m always struck when I go to investment conferences that I’m probably one of the very oldest people there. I feel so many young investors are under such intense pressure and they take that pressure out on management, often inappropriately in my opinion.

This interview was also published in IR Impact and can be accessed here : IR Impact

Why use Phoenix-IR/an independent? (A client’s view.)

Why use Phoenix-IR/ an independent?

Unprompted by us, a VP of IR at a $40bn industrial client recently answered that question (on the NIRI Community E-Forum – February 2025)

“For context, I’ve been doing NDRs in Europe for about 20 years and have seen the market there change dramatically over that time. I have worked with midsized and bulge bracket firms on NDRs there during that time and my company’s market cap has risen from $2B to now +/-$50B. The sell side faces worse pressures in Europe vs the US as it relates to getting paid for corporate access and being on clients’ broker lists, complying with MiFID2 and the declining economics of the sell side. Over the past 15 years we have experienced a notable decline in the quality of our European NDRs across the broker spectrum (bulge bracket too) because of this, despite our market cap increasing and broadening appeal. It is not the brokers fault and it isn’t like they are not trying their best, it is the pressure and model of the industry. The brokers are all going to swear that they have the secret sauce and you will have a fantastic trip, but I would say it is exaggerated. And once you start down the path with one, it is very difficult to pull the plug to try to work with another one if the meeting calendar is not shaping up to your liking.

Don’t get me wrong, depending on your market cap and industry, you may have a decent trip, but it is nothing like it used to be. As a result, we stopped using the sell side for Europe NDRs 4-5 years ago. We have been working with Phoenix-IR during that time and the quality of our meetings/trips have been phenomenal – no sell side firm can come close to matching it. The downside is that you have to pay them a fee for their services and expertise and cover all of the car services and other expenses, which the sell side would often cover. But they have great networks and are fantastic to work with. If you are taking the time and money to fly over and spend a week there and are serious about building a European investor base, it is a great ROI and a great use of your team’s time. I would highly recommend them. Something that is worth considering as you plan your European NDR.”

Day in the Life of IRO – Denis Jasmin of AtkinsRéalis

Denis Jasmin has been VP of IR at AtkinsRealis since 2007 and also chaired CIRI’s board from 2018 to 2020.  He discusses managing a corporate name change, investor days, activists and board level investor engagement.  He also provides tips for those wanting a career in IR and reveals the best and worst parts of the job.

 

 

 

 

 

AtkinsRéalis (ATRL.TO) is a >C$13 billion Canadian engineering services and nuclear company. The company deploys global capabilities locally to its clients and delivers unique end-to-end services across the whole life cycle of an asset including consulting, advisory & environmental services, intelligent networks & cybersecurity, design & engineering, procurement, project & construction management, operations & maintenance, decommissioning and capital. The breadth and depth of the company’s capabilities are delivered to clients in strategic sectors such as Engineering Services, Nuclear and Capital. The company, formerly known as SNC-Lavalin Group Inc., changed its name to AtkinsRéalis in September 2023. It was founded in 1911 and is headquartered in Montreal, Canada.

Denis Jasmin joined AtkinsRéalis in 1999 as Assistant Corporate Controller and became Vice President of Investor Relations in 2007. Denis is a Chartered Professional Accountant (CPA) with 35 years of experience. He holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Business Administration from the École des Hautes Études Commerciales (HEC) in Montreal. In 2022, Mr. Jasmin earned the designation of F.CIRI, from the Canadian Investor Relations Institute (CIRI). (Fellow designation is the highest honour for investor relations professionals in Canada). Denis served as director of the National Board of Directors of CIRI from 2014 to 2020 and chaired its Board from 2018 to 2020. Denis started his career at PwC as an auditor and held finance roles in companies such as TELAV-ISTS, Thibault, Messier, and Savard & Associates Inc.

You transitioned from being a corporate controller (an internal role) to IR (an external role), was that challenging?

It was not too difficult. As Corporate Controller, I was in charge of the MD&A and I was reviewing projects. We were a lot smaller at that time, so I knew the numbers pretty well and I have a CPA background. So, really the challenge for me was about messaging and communicating numbers to the public because I didn’t have any communication training or background. But management was really helpful at that time. When you do one-on-ones with management, then you understand the messaging and what they want to communicate to investors.

So I learned on the spot and as I knew the numbers and the projects, it made the transition pretty easy for me.

Discuss the changes you’ve seen in investor relations since you started in the role in 2007?

There have been many changes between 2007 and today. When I started in IR, the CFO had to give me special projects to occupy me. Today I don’t have any free time! Also, back then, we were smaller and only had five sell-side analysts covering us compared to 10 today (which is the right number). Back then the sell-side covered maybe eight companies vs. between 15 and 20 today. In 2007, analysts had the time to chat about the strategy vs. today analysts are more model-oriented (given their time pressures during earnings season).

Given those time pressures, we need to provide better presentations with fuller disclosure as analysts/investors no longer have the time for a 20/30 minute chat with each company they cover around earnings. So that’s a big change and I think the quality of research has suffered as the sell-side just don’t have as much time as they used to.

Investor Days are also a relatively new phenomenon. I think it’s really important that you do an Investor Day and present the strategy of the company (rather than just site visits). Every three years is the right cadence for us as we present our three-year strategic outlook.

Another change is that today we have a lot more hedge funds, more activists and more ESG focused funds. That requires a bunch of information. And you also need to do ESG roadshows now.

There has also been change at the board level. They want to know a lot more about investors. What are we hearing? What are the investors interested in? We also do roadshows with the Chairman now. We never did that in the past. And I think just in general you have to do more roadshows today to make sure that you have the right message out there.

Social media can be another challenge. It doesn’t take much, some people posting something and all your messaging is wrong out there and that needs to be addressed quickly.

How did you navigate the name change from SNC-Lavalin to AtkinsRéalis?

That project was largely managed by our communications team and was a lot of work. From the IR perspective, I had to select a new ticker, and I organized a market open with the TMX the morning of the name change.

The company has a number of segments and end markets, how do you simplify the message for newcomers to the story?

It’s a complex business but management has been working for five years to simplify the structure of the company. For example, we have sold our oil and gas business, we have exited our construction (LSTK) projects etc. Now we define ourselves as an engineering and nuclear company. When I talk to investors, I always try to bring them to our purpose, which is ‘engineering a better future for our planet and its people’.

The story is mainly about energy transition/climate change and aging infrastructure. While we have eight end markets, most of our work is in transportation, buildings and places and defense.

Also, back in 2007, we were in 100 countries with offices in 30 countries (and that’s what got us into trouble!), but our focus is now mainly Canada, the US, the UK and the Middle East.

As a Canadian company, do you struggle to attract foreign shareholders?

It’s always been a challenge for me to get more foreign shareholders partly because we only trade on the TSX, so 80% to 85% of my shareholders are in Canada. For my peers, it’s pretty much the same. Also, there are a number of engineering firms in the US so it can be difficult to attract US investors. In Europe/UK, I target global fund managers.

Average turnover?

Our main shareholders have been invested in the stock for 15/20/25 years. Our top four shareholders represent about 45% of the shares outstanding. One of them is CDPQ (Caisse de depot et placement du Quebec) and they are very supportive of us. A recent change (since September 2024) is the number of hedge funds interested in the story due to our nuclear exposure. (Microsoft, Google and Amazon have recently struck deals with operators and developers of nuclear power plants to fuel the boom in data centers). There are only a few players in nuclear and AtkinsRéalis comes top of the list as we have a real product that can be delivered or built now.

The stock price has performed exceptionally well over the last three years. What’s the reason?

We saw an increase of 79% last year and 77% year to date this year.
#1 Simplification of the company
#2 Nuclear
#3 Free cash flow generation and delivering better margins.
#4 Our organic revenue growth is one of the best in the industry so that’s got investors excited.

How many conferences do you attend a year?

Eight conferences a year, mostly in Canada but we will try and do more US conferences.

Does your nuclear exposure make you uninvestible for some investors?

Only three years ago, some investors couldn’t invest in AtkinsRéalis because we derived more than 10% of our revenue from nuclear. Yet 35% of the nuclear revenue was actually waste management and decommissioning. Today investor attitudes have completely changed – they are less concerned about our exposure. Indeed, investors believe that nuclear is part of the solution to decarbonize the world and will enable governments to meet their net carbon targets between now and 2050.

Who are you key ESG data providers/partners?

The required questionnaires take up a lot of time, so we use six firms –
MSCI, EcoVadis, ISS, Sustainalytics, CDP climate change report and S&P Global.

I would note that in recent investor meetings, we rarely get asked ESG questions so that’s a new development.

In spite of the apparent decreasing interest in ESG from investors, we take ESG seriously. Since 2019/20 we’ve disclosed our ESG scores on our website and have pushed ourselves to improve both our disclosure and our scores.

How frequently do you host Investor Days?

Every three years when we present our three-year strategy. It’s big event to organise, it is costly and there’s a lot of management time involved. We do site visits in between. Our last Investor Day was in Toronto but hybrid (since Covid our Investor Days have been hybrid which works well).

What’s the best part of your job?

Talking about the business, the amazing, incredible projects that we do.
And obviously working very closely with the CEO and CFO and the decision makers in the company. Also, it’s always exciting traveling to major cities such as London and New York.

The worst part?

Unsubstantiated rumours as I then have to deal with the unnecessary panic from the sell-side/investors!

Any tips for in-house IR?

As well as knowing the financials of the company well, you also need to understand the business and/or the products and services. Be curious about all the details. Visit various offices and projects, go into the details so that when you talk to the market and investors, you’ve got all the details.

By Gill Newton, partner at Phoenix-IR. This interview appeared in IR Magazine.

View from Europe – Heptagon Capital – Emphasis on Innovation

Institution profile

Heptagon Capital is a private investment firm with $14.4 billion AUM and advice, founded in 2005. The firm partners with a range of asset managers as well as manging funds in-house (including the Future Trends and European Focus Equity Funds) as well as discretionary mandates. The firm has offices in Dubai, London, Malta, Stockholm and Tel-Aviv.

Biography

Alexander Gunz is a Fund Manager at Heptagon Capital, having joined in 2011. His primary responsibility is managing the Heptagon Future Trends strategy. Along with regular thematic articles, Alex also produces the Future Trends blog and writes Heptagon’s monthly View From The Top macro commentary. Alex started his financial career in 1997, holding senior roles at J.P. Morgan and Friedman Billings and Ramsey, after earlier positions at Hoare Govett and Credit Suisse, where he became a top-ranked analyst. Alex has a BA in PPE from the University of Oxford and a Master’s in English Literature from Queen Mary College, University of London.

The heptagon Future Trends Fund can invest globally, what’s the geographic split?
Roughly 80% US today, 20% European by listing. The important caveat here is that where a company is listed means very little. The businesses we invest in are typically global. For example, we’ve owned Novo Nordisk and MasterCard since the inception of the fund. Novo Nordisk is headquartered in Denmark, but they get less than 1% of their revenues from Denmark. (The US and China are their two largest end markets). And MasterCard is listed in the US but operates pretty much in every geography in the world.

Discuss your investment style.
We look for businesses exposed to long term future trends. A trend that will grow in importance regardless of what’s happening to global GDP and where regulation or government intervention, if present, are tailwinds rather than headwinds. Then we look for the best business within that thematic area – pure play businesses, that have dominant market positions, and that market leadership is sustained by some form of competitive advantage or moat. We put a lot of emphasis on innovation and R&D. What is R&D as a percentage of revenues and what businesses are doing to attract and retain the best personnel?

The winning formula, is to identify high quality, sustainably oriented management teams that over allocate to innovation (organically or via judicious M&A) so that innovation drives market leadership. Market leadership drives free cash flow generation, which is the key financial metric for us. And that free cash flow enables continued innovation.

Does the Future Trends Fund mean you are heavily swayed to AI?
This is a multi thematic fund, not an AI fund. We invest in in everything from cloud to wind and fish to chips.

Which screens do you use?
Firstly, this is an Article 8 fund, so we have a very clear set of exclusions (weapons, gambling, alcohol, tobacco, oil, mining, nuclear etc). Renewable and food innovation are themes we are keen on. Xylem is a holding due to its exposure to water and MasterCard, another given its exposure to financial inclusion. These themes naturally align with the UN Sustainable Development Goals.

Secondly, we do not own loss making businesses. In my many years in financial services, I’ve learned that #1 you have to separate hype from reality and #2 only businesses that generate free cash flow will ultimately survive.

Another key differentiator is we only own pure play businesses. So, we’re generally wary of conglomerates.

The other factor is we typically want is a business that is #1 or #2 in its market. (E.g., MasterCard, are clearly #2 in the market after Visa (and MA has massively outperformed Visa in recent years and that’s partly why we own it). Also, only about a quarter of all payments globally by volume are done digitally today so there’s a huge thematic runway ahead.

Do you look at ESG scores when considering investing and which providers do you use?ESG is why it is important to have ongoing engagement with management and we participate actively in proxy voting. To us, sustainability really begins with governance. You want to have management teams you can stare in the eye metaphorically and trust and believe are good stewards of your capital.

MSCI is our external provider but we use it more as a sanity check than a guiding factor. A statistic we are very proud of – as of 30/09/2024, 71% of the fund received either a AAA or a AA rating.

What’s your active share ratio?
Over 95%.

Minimum market cap?
Soft close of $1 billion. The median market cap in our fund is about $50 billion.
There’s quite a broad spectrum from $8 billion to $500 billion. The sweet spot would be $20 to $40 billion – a company that has proven itself but is not necessarily well understood by the investment community.

Average holding period?
Potentially indefinite. Average holding period is 50 months.

Fund performance figures?
As of 30/09/24, the Fund has produced 11.1% annualised returns since inception.
In the last three years, performance has been more challenging as we don’t own the Magnificent Seven.

Can we focus on some of your larger holdings and why you invested?

Qanta Services – we think about second derivatives of AI. AI is hugely demanding of power consumption and therefore you need a robust set of grid infrastructure, not just in the US but elsewhere in the developed world. Most grid infrastructure was built around WWII and was never intended for the amount of data that’s going through it. Compound global warming as a factor and that puts stress on ageing infrastructure, and you simply need to upgrade it. That’s where Quanta Services plays a critical role. The business is strongly positioned because they self-perform almost all of their work. They do not work with third party contractors and therefore have a very strong track record of execution and delivery in terms of product. They have a research and innovation-led culture. They own a number of technical training colleges in the US and subsequently have a much higher than average employee retention rate. Their current backlog is about $30 billion which is an all-time high. It’s not just upgrading existing grid infrastructure and connecting new elements into the grid, but also the sheer amount of new demand that is coming from AI as well.

Palo Alto is one of our largest holdings. We’ve argued consistently that data will have zero value unless you secure it, store it and analyse it. Cyber is a theme we’ve followed for a very long time. In cyber, our contention is you either have to be very small and niche like Darktrace, Avast, Sophos (subject to positive M&A) or you have to have a very strong franchise which PANW has. Palo Alto has been arguably more effective than its peers in terms of pioneering this idea of platformization, creating a one stop shop, from which corporates can buy a large suite of cyber products. Another compelling characteristic is from day one, all of their products have been cloud native, and nearly everything they’ve done has been organic (developed in-house). So back to my point about innovation and innovation culture. When you are integrating new products into your suite, clearly if it’s an in-house product, it’s much easier to integrate. Also, anyone who’s met Nikesh Arora would struggle not to be impressed by him.

Equinix – owned since the fund’s inception. As above, data needs to be stored. Equinix, is arguably the best player with regard to the storage theme. It is a portmanteau for equal Internet exchange and effectively they are the largest carrier neutral data centre player. So, if you are two third parties, Google and Amazon for example, and you’re looking to cross connect your traffic, it makes much more sense to do it in an Equinix data centre than anywhere else. They have basically built the largest network of data centres in the world. What is really compelling about the Equinix story is the percentage of customers that buy in more than one geography. Some stats – 60% of the Fortune 500 buy from Equinix, 76% of their customers are multi regional, 64% take services in all three regions. They have 268 data centres across all six continents today.

Xylem – the amount of water needed to produce just one semiconductor chip is remarkable (1500 gallons) and that’s why a business like Xylem is incredibly relevant. Water is about 1% of global GDP, but the other 99% of global GDP requires water to survive. Water demand is increasing yet water supply is constrained. We like industries where there is a demand/supply imbalance. The world needs to focus on how to improve water supply. Xylem have a leading franchise both in water hardware (pumps and filters), but also water software as well. And every single industry globally is digitizing so having that ability to sell a full suite of water services and then be able to tangibly point out that these water services are saving you (in terms of identifying leaks, recycling water, routing water efficiently) is a demonstrable and sustainable benefit to an end customer.

Do you like to meet management?
Absolutely, it’s an important part of our process. I do between 50 and 100 meetings p.a. We try and meet management once in London and once at their headquarters. Meeting management really helps to bring the equity story to life.

How do you prefer to meet management?
It depends on our knowledge of the business and whether we’re invested.
Physically making the effort to go and see someone at their HQ generally makes them more amenable to sharing information and talking to you.

Any companies that stand out as particularly good at investor relations?
Quanta Services is headquartered in Houston, TX, but once a year they fly their management team to New York and do an investor reception. It’s an informal environment and for 2 – 3 hours you can chat to everyone from the CEO, to head of HR to the manager of their Midwest division.

Why should companies meet you?
Because we are fundamental long term investors, long only and given our thematic approach, we are much more top down than bottom up. So, the discussion topics tend to be quite interesting and thought provoking for all.

Funding the food revolution: How Swiss fund manager Picard Angst is investing in the future of agri-food systems

Picard Angst (PA) is an independent Swiss financial services provider, established in 2003. Based in Zurich and the UAE, the firm offers different investment solutions and takes on individual asset management mandates with its 40 investment professionals. It runs several investment strategies in the listed and alternative space, including the Food Revolution Fund, different commodity and real estate strategies and two medical technology venture capital funds.

Jann Breitenmoser works as a senior investment manager at PA and is part of the food revolution team. Previously, he worked at Man Group, where he co-managed a thematic investment strategy focused on water and the circular economy. Before that, he worked as portfolio manager at J Safra Sarasin Asset Management, where he managed different impact and sustainable equity strategies. He started his career more than 14 years ago at Akina (formerly Lombard Odier Private Equity), working as a private equity associate.

What is PA’s client base?
We have a broad client base of mainly Swiss and international institutional investors.

What are its assets under management?
We currently manage more than $4 bn in assets under management with continued inflows across both regions and into our various product solutions and services.

What is the Food Revolution Fund’s investment objective?
The global agri-food system is highly inefficient. The yearly food production value amounts to $8 tn, corresponding to around 10 percent of global GDP. In producing this 10 percent, the agri-food sector generates a third of global emissions, occupies half of the planet’s habitable land and consumes more than two thirds of the available fresh water. This makes the agri-food system a source of significant external costs related to environmental and health damages or malnutrition, which are not reflected in the price of food. This market failure results in false incentives and a structural overuse of natural resources.

In recent years we have seen an increasing pressure to internalize and address these external costs. In this structural shift toward a more efficient and sustainable food system, the global food industry, which is dominated by large multinationals, has an important role to play and bears a lot of responsibility. At the same time, this process poses significant challenges for these ‘old food’ companies. The vast majority of them sit on huge historically grown portfolios that are dominated by plastic, sugar, meat and other problematic products, and are facing growing pressure to adjust.

As investors in the food revolution, we leave these old-food companies aside and focus on innovative companies that we consider to be part of the solution. As the winners of tomorrow’s food industry, they should enjoy a significant tailwind in the years to come and offer attractive investment opportunities. These companies can be found in both the large-cap and small-cap space.

What is the fund’s strategy and style?
The fund adopts a fundamental, thematic and style-agnostic investment approach, with a focus on the agri-food industry. We aim to capitalize on major catalysts for change and fundamental trends around the food revolution that evolve independently of the economic cycle and can become a permanent source of capital growth and attract future money flows.

We invest in 40-60 publicly listed equities (using no benchmark) offering exposure to six sub-themes covering the entirety of the agri-food value chain:
• Alternative proteins (such as ADM)
• Sustainable packaging solutions (such as Graphic Packaging)
• Organic, healthy and functional food (such as BellRing Brands)
• New forms of consumption (such as Zebra Technologies)
• Automation and agri-tech (such as GEA Group)
• Food safety and clean label (such as Novonesis)

By focusing on such themes throughout the entire agri-food value chain rather than through sectors, our equity long-only fund is able to invest across all geographies and market capitalizations, thereby offering an undiluted exposure to winners of the food revolution, combined with sufficient diversification. This should help to reach an uncorrelated and differentiated alpha generation relative to more traditional equity benchmarks.

Which screens do you use?
Our investment decisions and portfolio weightings are based on an in-depth bottom-up analysis. For all of our invested companies we conduct a detailed fundamental analysis and calculate an intrinsic value for each company. This is, however, only one aspect of several that we consider in our own proprietary scoring system.

Among other aspects, we assess in detail:
• Competitive landscape and defendable entry barriers (moat)
• Earnings momentum and estimate revisions
• Ability to fund future growth
• Access to and track record of management
• Earnings quality and return on invested capital
• Short and long-term catalysts
• ESG considerations and general profile of each company

How are ESG and sustainability embedded into the investment process?
Our sustainability strategy applies a systematic, modular ESG approach, the PA ESG layer, which is fully integrated into the investment process and part of risk management. This takes into account both exclusion criteria (such as low ESG ratings, controversial weapons, stranded assets or companies involved in serious controversies) and integration of ESG scores to reduce risks and optimize opportunities. On top of the general exclusions mentioned above, we apply an ESG framework specific to the food revolution strategy, including specific inclusion criteria.

Our investment approach is focused on pure-play companies, which we consider to be beneficiaries of the structural shift toward a more sustainable and efficient food industry. Hence, we do not invest into structurally challenged old-food companies. We use a systematic approach to structure the listed agri-food universe into categories, based on the food revolution ‘purity’ of their revenues.

This measures the percentage of revenues a given company is generating along the value chains of our previously mentioned six sub-themes. The weighted average revenue purity of the overall portfolio must exceed 75 percent, so we mainly focus on companies with A and B ratings. We also exclude category D companies, which are considered old food.

Do you use external ESG ratings providers?
Currently more than 95 percent of the portfolio’s market value is invested in companies with an existing ESG score. For these companies, we apply internal ESG criteria and also use data from large third-party providers. For the other companies without a rating – mainly due to their small market cap – we apply our internal ESG criteria. Our strategy currently has an overall AA MSCI ESG Rating.

Do you have market cap constraints?
No. Our portfolio reflects a mix of young, smaller, fast-growing ‘disruptors’ and established companies with a strong market positioning, a clear moat and attractive cash generation. Currently 40 percent of our portfolio is invested in companies with a market cap of more than $10 bn. Another 40 percent is invested in companies with a market cap between $2 bn and $10 bn, and the remaining 20 percent is invested in smaller firms with a market cap below $2 bn.

What is your average holding period?
By its very nature, thematic investing is looking at changes and trends that have durability. Our strategic time horizon tends to focus on three to four-year cycles. Tactically we have a shorter time horizon, mostly focused on the calibration of risk-reward and rebalancing. The portfolio is expected to see a yearly turnover of around a third.

Do you like to meet management before you buy a stock?
As previously mentioned, one of the key aspects in our proprietary scoring system is access to and track record of management. Hence, it is crucial for us to first engage in a thorough discussion with the company. This ensures that we fully understand its operations, strategic goals and financial health, allowing us to make well-informed, long-term investment decisions.

What is your preferred format for meetings?
For us it is very important to be in regular contact with management and the firm’s IR department. We actively seek opportunities to engage with management through multiple channels, including one-on-one, in-person meetings, virtual discussions and interactions at conferences and roadshows here in Switzerland.

Why should companies meet you?
Within the food revolution team, we are a dedicated team of five specialists with a broad network of corporate contacts and investors. We are a trusted and valued investment partner, thanks to our extensive expertise in the agri-food industry. We maintain close connections with companies across both the publicly traded and private equity sectors. This dual approach allows us to gain a comprehensive understanding of a wide range of market developments, opportunities and new emerging technologies along the entire agri-food value chain.

What is your outlook for the remainder of 2024?
Within our universe, we see encouraging signs that the food industry is about to enter a new innovation and volume cycle after an extended period of high food inflation, ‘shrinkflation’ and de-stocking. We are very positive on companies exposed to organic and healthy foods, as well as companies active in the food ingredients space. We are confident that such firms will benefit from the improving general dynamics in the food industry.

We are also confident in the potential of companies that specialize in sustainable packaging solutions. This industry is gaining global traction as governments intensify their efforts to tackle food packaging issues. Policies are being implemented to ensure packaging is recyclable, setting mandatory reuse targets and restricting certain single-use packaging types.

By Gill Newton, partner at Phoenix-IR.

A Day in the Life of an IRO – Danyal Hussain, VP of IR at ADP.

Automatic Data Processing (ADP) is a $97 bn human resources management software company listed on Nasdaq. Danyal Hussain joined the firm in 2018 as senior director of IR, becoming vice president and head of IR in February 2020.
Prior to that, he was a vice president on the equity research team at Morgan Stanley, covering payment and processing names as well as fintech stocks. Before that, he co-founded the power generation consultancy Asyad Energy in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. He also worked at Ernst & Young and Johnson & Johnson. He has an MBA in finance from NYU Stern School of Business and a BS in accounting from Rutgers University.

Matthew Keating, senior director of IR, joined ADP in 2022. In July 2024, Hussain will become senior vice president of financial planning and analysis, while Keating will assume the role of vice president of IR.

How has ADP changed since you started working there?

From day one, we were involved in a high-profile proxy fight (Pershing Square held a stake in ADP from 2017 until 2019). That was a catalyst for a lot of change within the company and how we engage with our shareholders so that’s one major change I’ve experienced over these six years.
Separately, we now have more public competitors than ever and more analysts who cover our sector. And the third change I would point to is how we engage with investors, because I joined with an outside perspective; previous IROs had come from within ADP. We’ve taken a more proactive approach to engaging with both our sell-side analysts and our investors in terms of our willingness to participate in conferences and roadshows, as well as being more ‘out there’ as active participants in the capital markets.

Technically, ADP is now classified in the industrials or business services sector rather than technology – is this an issue?

It’s a recent change and it drives me mad. The Global Industry Classification Standard (GICS) sector we sit in changed a year ago: the logic was that everyone wants to be a tech company or wants to be valued as a tech company, so ultimately what the GICS committee tried to do was push companies out of tech to align with the end-markets they serve. Because ADP serves all companies, it classified us in the professional services/business services sector, which sits within industrials.
One of the challenges we’ve always had with ADP is that we have a unique business model and for a long time we were one of only two public companies in this space. Therefore, we don’t fit cleanly in any coverage universe. We were always a hybrid of payments and software services. We are almost under-covered by the folks who really get deep on any one sector. It’s been a challenge for us for a long time.
It’s changed a little in the last few years, as the analysts who cover us now tend to be more software or tech-oriented. A large part of that is because software has become such a large universe that now you have more teams [covering it] and they can go deeper on subsectors, like human capital management in our case. Also, we now have more public competitors. So it’s getting better, but we are still covered by a hodgepodge of analysts with different levels of expertise.

How do you convince investors that ADP is worth its premium or valuation?

That’s a tough argument to counter as it is subjective. There is no clear set of comparisons you can use for ADP. A simple analysis versus, for example, the S&P 500 is a good place to start. Historically, ADP has always had a premium valuation in the market relative to other companies of similar growth profile. Therefore, investors have shown they’re willing to pay that premium as long as we can maintain our growth profile and all the other characteristics that people have come to appreciate about us: transparency, quality, good governance, and so on. And we are firmly committed to all of those. Usually, convincing a new investor that we are worthy does take time. Investors have to understand why this company has always traded at a premium and continues to do so.

What do you say to those who perceive ADP as a sleepy 75-year-old company?

In our history, there have been parts of our business that absolutely needed to be overhauled and reinvented, but you don’t become a 75-year-old company in a competitive industry without being able to reinvent yourself. Another change is that we now have a few key public competitors that like to talk loudly about how they’re doing versus ADP, which is something we have addressed – and have done so well – in recent years. The other thing we now do is demonstrate just how far our products have come. Investors want to know what the products look and feel like, and how they differ from competitors’ products, so demos validate what we’re saying and, when we do that, investors tend to be very impressed. The onus is on us to be able to go out and show investors that our products are not 75 years old; in many cases they’re only a few years old and may be on the most modern product and technology stack within the market. We create value by making a product that enables HR practitioners and personnel to function day to day.

How important is it to you to be a ‘dividend aristocrat’ – a company that pays a consistent and growing dividend?

This year, if all goes well and our board approves a dividend increase in November, we will hit 50 years of consecutive dividend increases, which would make us a dividend king or queen [a company with at least 50 years of growing dividend payments]. When we hit that milestone, we will be the first technology company to have such enduring and consistent growth.

How has having a new CEO and CFO impacted your IR activities?

I’ve been fortunate enough to help bring on two CFOs and one CEO. I think the opportunity is greatest when you’re bringing in an outsider because there’s an opportunity to help explain a large, complex business like ADP, which takes everybody a while to grasp. Those who already know ADP incredibly well need to learn how to better interact with investors and sell-siders and specifically how to articulate things in a way that will appeal to stakeholders. It’s almost more of an executive coach role.

Why do you think ADP has such a strong culture?

I think it comes both from the top end (CEO and board level) and from the core of what we do. And the average tenure of a CEO is 10 years, which helps. Also, we are fortunate in that we deliver something for the world that is unambiguously good. We help companies with something that is noble, which is to help them be better employers for their workers, and our associates know that what they’re doing creates value in the world. We all feel good about what we do, and we all operate in a client-centric organization. We know that if we don’t deliver an excellent experience for our clients, we won’t win in the market. I think a client-centric culture attracts a certain type of personality that is just a joy to work with. So from the bottom up we have tens of thousands of people who take joy in delivering value for clients; from the top down, we have been fortunate to have leaders who are empathetic and visionary and stick around for long enough to see their vision through.

How are you handling Matt’s transition to a vice president of IR role?

Well, the good news is I’m not leaving the company. I’ll be around to help Matt as much as he needs me. Also, Matt has worked in IR – both within ADP and externally – and is very experienced, so we expect the transition to be as seamless as it can possibly be.

This interview appeared in IR Magazine.

Liontrust – London

Liontrust was launched in 1995 and listed on the London Stock Exchange in 1999. Today, there are seven teams that invest in global equities, sustainable investment, global fixed income, and multi- asset. A third of Liontrust’s AuMA is in sustainable investment. There is no single house view. AUM are $27.8 billion as at 31 December 2023. The firm is a signatory to the United Nations Principles for Responsible Investment (UN PRI).

The Liontrust GF Sustainable Future US Growth Fund was launched in July 2023 and is managed by Chris Foster, Simon Clements, and Peter Michaelis. It is an Article 9 fund and focuses on 35 – 55 stocks.

Chris Foster joined Liontrust in April 2017 as part of the acquisition of Alliance Trust Investments (ATI). Chris had initially joined ATI through the management training programme after graduating with a First Class Honours degree in Economics and Mathematics from the University of Edinburgh. Chris is a CFA Charterholder. Chris has ten years’ industry experience and has been part of the Liontrust Sustainable Investment team for eight years.

Co-fund managers Simon Clements and Peter Michaelis also joined Liontrust in April 2017. Prior to managing funds at ATI for five years, Simon spent 12 years at Aviva Investors where latterly he was Head of Global Equities. Peter has managed Sustainable and Responsible Investment portfolios for over 20 years and was previously Head of Sustainable and Responsible Investment at Aviva Investments.

In recent years, Liontrust has made a number of acquisitions such as Majedie and Neptune, how are acquisitions integrated?
Each team is very much independent from the rest of the organisation. Our team joined in April
2017 and has been kept as a separate team to those other acquisitions. We don’t have a CIO and we don’t have a house view. It’s been very seamless for us – the support services we get from Liontrust, the sales, the marketing, the compliance, the risk, the performance stuff and all the distribution is unchanged.

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IR at K – John Renwick, VP Investor Relations & Corporate Planning at Kellanova

John Renwick, VP of Investor Relations & Corporate Planning at Kellanova (formerly Kellogg) has spent 23 years at the company. He initially joined in 2000 as VP of IR & Competitive Analysis and then held a number of operational roles in – Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, Toronto, Canada, Queretaro Area, Mexico before returning to Battle Creek, MI and reprising and expanding his role as VP of IR & Corporate Planning in 2016.

Asked how he got his initial role at Kellogg, John was a sell-side analyst at Morgan Stanley, covering packaged food stocks. He was roadshowing Kellogg’s C-suite around Europe when, at the end of the trip, the CFO said “I have a crazy idea” and asked him if he wanted to become Kellogg’s IRO. John was taken by surprise, initially saying “I’m a New Yorker, my wife’s a Jersey girl, and we barely knew where Michigan was!” However, intrigued to see what life was like “on the inside” of a food company, he took the role, thinking he’d be back on Wall Street in two years. Continue reading

Rathbones Group – London

Rathbones Group is a leading, independent provider of investment and wealth management
services for private investors, charities and trustees, including discretionary investment
management. In September 2023, Rathbone and Investec Wealth & Investment UK
combined – creating the UK’s leading discretionary wealth manager with $125 billion of
funds under management and administration. Within the group, Rathbone Investment
Management (discretionary management) are fundamental investors who combine top-
down asset allocation and sector analysis with stock-picking.

Sanjiv Tumkur joined Rathbone Investment Management in 2016 as Head of Equity Research, becoming Head of Equities in 2022. He is responsible for developing and promoting
Rathbones’ equity investment philosophy and process. He joined from Investec Wealth where he was a member of the Research team and provided equity analysis and recommendations to the firm’s investment managers. After reading Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford University, Sanjiv spent nine years at Morgan Grenfell. He then spent three years at AllianceBernstein.

How have things changed since the merger?
Post-completion, we are working to align Rathbones’ and IWI UK’s approaches, looking at
both organisations and incorporating the best from each. We are similar businesses, with
similar client bases and client objectives, and we are excited about the opportunity to create
the UK’s leading discretionary wealth manager. Continue reading

Pyrford International – London

Pyrford International, founded in 1987, is an investment boutique that operates independently within Columbia Threadneedle Investments. Pyrford is a provider of global asset
management services for collective investment funds, investment management companies,
local and state bodies, pension schemes, endowments and foundations. Its investment
approach is rooted in capital preservation and its strategies include global absolute return,
global equity and international equity.

Suhail Arain is head of portfolio management for the Americas. He joined Pyrford in 2008 as a portfolio manager covering North American equities having previously worked at Scottish Widows as a global equities portfolio manager and research analyst. He has more than 25 years’ experience in the asset management industry with a particular emphasis on US and
global equities.

Arain graduated from King’s College, London with a degree in law and completed a masters in finance from London Business School. He also holds the CFA designation and has held positions at KPMG, Hambros Merchant Bank, Prudential and ABP Investments.

Pyrford is owned by Columbia Threadneedle. Do you operate independently?
We operate independently of Columbia Threadneedle so nothing has changed for us in terms
of our investment process or our clients.

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